BuonGiorno писал(а):Видимо, коробка имеет некий запас относительно паспортно- заявленного, и на максимальном моменте ездят не всю дорогу. 19ЖТДМ имеет 320, Нм штатных, к нему идет коробка М32, которая как я понимаю имеет идентичные паспортные 320, Нм. У меня Powerjet Новитековский, что дает + 40, Нм, итого 360, Нм типа. Я так езжу 8 лет и 120ткм. Коробка жива... Плюем три раза... :D
Штефан из Сквадры подробно написал про эволюцию фиатовского 16v дизеля, она ниже, я собрал и перевёл, дополнил это словами Массаи о долговременных перспективах дизеля, которые начали сбываться после дизельгейта.
На 159-й и 4-цил. 16v дизеле были три разные коробки, опелевские M32 и F40, и фиатовская С635. Паспорт 320, 400 и 350 Нм соответственно. С 1,9 JTDm и коробкой M32 производившимся в 2005-2009 ограничение лежит в сцеплении, его возможностях, поэтому Штефан выставляет 370 Nm/185 HP, хотя двигатель с его слов может выдать надёжно и долговременно 390 Nm/185 HP. С 2,0 JTDm и коробкой F40 пошедшими с 2009-го ограничений особых нет, поэтому он выставляет 430 Нм/200 HP, относительно надёжный пик по мотору. С 2,0 JTDm и коробкой C635 пошедшей с 2010-го ограничение уже снова в коробке, поэтому он выставляет 390 Nm/200 HP.
Собственно эволюция.
1.9 JTD 16v EU-3 156/147/GTIn 2003 the JTD engine was completely revised and a new generation was introduced. The main difference is the application of 4 valves per cylinder. Actually a technique that was introduced in petrol engines about 20 years ago. In fact, the technology is much older, but it was only then that it was applied in “normal” engines. 4 valves per cylinder allows the engine to draw in even more air. For a diesel this means that even more fuel can be injected, resulting in a higher power.
The first 1.9 JTD delivered 105 HP at 4000 rpm. That was in 1997. The JTD 16v now delivers 150 HP at the same 4000 rpm. In order for the engine to deliver this power safely, a large number of other changes have been made to the engine block.
The 2nd important difference is the type of injection system. The so-called EDC15 from Bosch has been modified to the EDC16 system. A much more powerful system when it comes to microprocessor computing speed. With the introduction, there was plenty of work to be done for chip tuners. Squadra Tuning has followed the developments and picked up the thread at the right time.
The GT Coupe was the first in a series of 16v / 20v versions to be developed. With this engine we encounter the same "disadvantage" as with the 110 and 115 HP JTD 8v versions earlier. The turbo is not equipped with a waste gate. This means that there is a limit to the power of the motor. When more power is programmed, the turbo pressure is no longer controllable. This results in an error message and loss of power. For this 140 HP JTD 16v, 170 HP proved to be a safe limit, 175 HP proved to be a safe limit for the 150 HP 16v JTD.
New is the ability to limit the torque per gear engaged. The JTD 16v has so much torque as standard that this can result in dramatic intervention of the ASR in 1st gear. In addition, the forces on differential and drive shafts are so great that there is a restriction in place. And we did that at our own discretion. In first gear we even set the maximum torque a bit lower than standard. In 2nd gear we sat down between the standard and the tuned torque. The full torque is available from 3rd gear.
As a final note, we can report that the 16v JTDs have more torque than what the manufacturer specifies as standard. Why is unclear to us. It is not new to us. Even before we put the 1.9 JTD 16v's to a standard strength training, we could already tell from the software that it must be more than 305 Nm. There turned out to be about 320.
1.9 JTD 16v EU-4 147/GTIn 2005 EDC16 system was upgraded to EDC16C39 or EDC16+. This system first appeared in the Alfa 159. The big difference was the active particulate filter with regeneration system. With the Alfa GT this has been omitted, as a lambda probe is used there. Until now, the lambda sensor was only available in petrol versions.
The Euro 3 version of the JTD 16v had more torque than promised at Alfa Romeo. The Euro 4 is no longer the case. At least not that much. The torque is now more in line with the specified value.
1.9 JTDm 16v EU-4 159Just like the car as a whole, the injection system is also of a higher level. The EDC16 has been evaluated to EDC16C39 also called EDC16+. The injection pressure has been increased from 1400 to 1600 bar. Not very spectacular.
Much more interesting is that the system is now not called Unijet but Multijet. In other words, more than 2 injections per cycle. Up to 5. The combustion is therefore even smoother and therefore cleaner. Despite this, an advanced emission system had to be applied to make the engine meet the latest Euro 4 standards. A maintenance-free particulate filter / catalytic converter has been chosen. The system measures the temperature in front of and in the cat and the pressure difference over the cat. On this basis, one can judge the pollution of the cat. If this exceeds a certain value, a special regeneration program is activated. The injection system then injects fuel during the exhaust stroke, causing the exhaust gases to become so hot that the catalytic converter burns clean.
Unlike the earlier 1.9 16v JTD models, the 159 1.9 JTD 16v does not suffer from a too small turbo. We could program 185 horsepower without restrictions from factory 150. In terms of torque, we had to hold back a bit. The engine could easily deliver 390 Nm from factory 330, but the clutch will not sustain this in the longer term. That is why we set the limit at 370 Nm. This is a level that can be maintained in the longer term.
The 136 hp version is a tax-friendly version. This means that the standard power has been reduced from 150 to 136 hp to end up in a more favorable registration TAX or road load category. The torque is unchanged. So with tuning you get 14 additional bonus horsepower.
2.0 JTDm 16v EU-5 159/GiuliettaIn 2009 the engine successor of the 1.9 JTDm 16v was introduced, the 2.0 JTDm 16v. Sounds like nothing spectacular, but the result is anyway. The engine capacity has not even increased by 100 cc as the type name suggests, but by only 46 cc. From 1910 to 1956 cc. The compression ratio has also been reduced again. From 17.5 for the old 1.9 16v to 16.5 for the new 2.0 16v. A trend that we also encounter with other brands. Probably to have the peak pressures slightly lower in combination with higher turbo pressures and to be able to inject a lot of mixture, so to be able to deliver a lot of power and still be able to offer reliability. The usual turbo pressure has increased again. Where we used to shudder from +1.50 bar, this 2.0 JTDm now goes to +1.70 bar by default. In short, a lot of air. A lot of air can be combined with a lot of fuel and that means a lot of power.
But the engineers have introduced a new parameter. Previously, both the temperature before the particulate filter and in the particulate filter were measured. That is no longer the case. The particulate filter has been moved from under the car to in front of the engine immediately after the turbocharger. At the time, these sensors did not impede the ultimate power. The sensor in front of the particulate filter has now been moved to in front of the turbo. That is the hottest part of the exhaust. However, this parameter is now used as a software limiter. The effect that then arises is the following. The engine delivers good power in 4th gear. That works fine until just after 4000 rpm. The time required for this is relatively short, so global warming is not yet that strong. But when you switch to 5th gear, it continues to heat up to a certain temperature. As soon as the temperature determined by the software is reached, the ECU regulates the amount of fuel in such a way that this temperature does not increase any further. So a rock-hard power limiter. In practice, this moment is already reached at approximately 3500 rpm with chip tuning. In 6th gear that is already at 3300 rpm. The power can then drop to about 180 HP.
The job of a good chip tuner consists of raising such limits to a responsible higher level. Obviously, it was not easy to find the piece of software that proposed this exhaust gas temperature limitation. But persistence always wins, also in this case. The adjustment has ensured that the entire 5th gear can now be run at full power. 6th gear to about 3800 rpm. After 4000 rpm we observe a little more margin. This has meant that we have been able to reach the 200 hp limit, also in 6th gear.
In short, without this adjustment it will probably only be possible to reach 200 hp in 4th gear. In the 5th, barely 190 horsepower remains. Only 180 hp in 6th gear. The biggest difference in terms of hardware is the gearbox used. Where the 1.9 16v had to do with the M32 gearbox, the 2.0 has now got the stronger gearbox of the 2.4 20v gearbox. This also means the stronger coupling of the 2.4. Finally we can once again unleash the full potential of the engine without being hampered by the clutch endurance. 430 Nm is therefore the result.
December 2010. With the introduction of the 2.0 JTDm 16v with 136 hp, it has also become known that the 2.0 JTDm 16v with 170 hp from model year 2011 will now be equipped with a different type of gearbox. The C635 gearbox to be precise. The new C635 box would be good for 350 Nm according to the factory. Given our experiences and the fact that the factory already supplies the 2.0 JTDm with around 350 Nm as standard, there is of course still some usable margin left. Yet we have been relatively cautious. We do not want to go further than a maximum of 390 Nm. In terms of power, we arrive at the previously indicated 200 HP. This gives the 2.0 JTDm a very willing character. From practice it remains that when the torque value is approximately 2 x the power value, the motor acquires a very continuous character.
2.0 JTDm 16v EU-6 GiuliettaWith the advent of the Euro 6 standard, the JTDms of the Alfa Giulietta are equipped with a new type of injection system; the EDC17C49 system. We have already built up a lot of experience with this and thought we would not encounter any surprises anymore. Yet we ran into a new kind of limiter. One that limited the engine's power. The software also appeared to be provided with control tables. Very interesting.
There are 3 important novelties for a number of Euro 6 versions. The first only applies for the 1.6 JTDm 16v 120 hp. A second type of EGR system, a so-called low pressure EGR system. The infamous EGR system is now called the high pressure EGR system. This is maintained but is only active during the engine warm-up phase. The low pressure EGR system takes over the task while the engine is warming up. Then NOx Storage Catalyst (NSC). A new type of catalytic converter that replaces the old oxidation catalytic converter. This cat also regenerates regularly. Much more often than the active particulate filter (DPF). Finally, electronically controlled guide vane control for the turbo pressure. No longer with a vacuum-controlled membrane, but with a stepper motor. This is very big progress as far as we are concerned.
The new 2.0 JTDm 16v with 150 hp has a number of differences compared to the predecessor. According to Alfa, this is the 140 hp variant. We see it much more like the 170 hp with a slightly smaller turbo. The 150 hp also has all the gadgets that the 170 hp also had and the 140 hp did not.
What is special is the fact that the gearbox used is the now well-known C635 which according to the factory is designed for 350 Nm. Alfa Romeo already promises 380 Nm as standard. And that turned out not to be a peak. Now we are really not shocked. The predecessor (C630) produced 300 Nm and we now know that 420 Nm does not cause any problems. It cannot be otherwise than that the coupling is also of a stronger type. Despite that, we have kept the increase in torque under control. For the time being we keep it at 410 Nm which we only release at 2000 rpm. It could be sooner, but we think that too large a deposit on the flywheel and it just does not drive well. In terms of power, there is a wonderful 180 hp after the limit was finally found. The exhaust gas temperature then remains nicely within the limit.
2.2 JTDm 16v EU-6B Giulia/StelvioJune 2016. After some previews, the first real driving demo cars were delivered to the dealers. A 150 and a 180 HP 2.2 JTDm 16v. Just 1 day before the introduction, we had already managed to read the software. So we could get started right away. Even without actually measuring, we noticed a few things. First of all, it was abundantly clear that the 180 HP version is the base engine. The 136 and 150 HP versions are software downgraded versions. Consultation to the partnumbers also confirmed this. The turbo is identical on all versions. It is even visible in the software that it was made for the automatic version and has been down-tuned in terms of torque for the manual version.
The manual gearbox shifts nice and tight and the gears are perfectly chosen for a 180 HP variant. The 150 HP quickly reduces torque to eventually reach 150 HP. That gives 6th gear an overdrive feeling again. The 136 HP is in the price list, but we cannot imagine that it will actually be sold in the Netherlands, it’s for Belgium and other markets. For the manual transmission with 350 Nm and 136 HP, the ratio between torque and power is already missing. For a machine with 450 Nm and 136 HP, this is completely strange.
The manual gearbox of the 2.2 JTDm is from Getrag. A German gearbox manufacturer with a serious track record. Provides a lot to the German car industry. For the Giulia they have chosen the so-called 6MTI300. A mechanical transmission (MT) with 6 gears good for…. 300 Nm? No, fortunately not. But a careful 350 Nm. Alfa promises 380 Nm as standard. That is not even a peak of 380 Nm, but a patch between roughly 1800 and 3000 rpm. However, after we had studied the software, we arrived at at least 400 Nm. And not a peak either, but over a large rev range. In short, Alfa is already seriously over the gearbox manufacturer's advice.
What should we then add responsibly? Now a gearbox is never constructed in such a way that it breaks first without the clutch having started to slip. Alfa apparently believes that 400 Nm for the applied clutch will not be a problem. 10% margin always remains. That is why we opt for a maximum of 440 Nm. That is 90 Nm above Getrag's advice. But if we then go back to experience with other gearboxes, we know that 30 to 40% over load is still fine.
Alfa could easily have solved it by choosing one step higher from the manual gearboxes from Getrag. That is the 6MTI500. Yes, good for 500 Nm. The automatic version consists of the 8HP50 gearbox. A 500 Nm 8-speed automatic. If you have a feeling of doubt with the 440 Nm for the manual, we also deliver a slightly lesser version with 420 Nm and 210 HP. The Medio version. A limited torque gain but a large power gain.
The power measurement confirmed that the 400 Nm from the standard software was exactly correct. Almost exactly 400 Nm was measured there. The special fact also means that in the technical workshop documentation of Alfa Romeo also torque and power curve which show 400 Nm. Even more, a few weeks later these were supplemented with graphs that now show 380 Nm. It could well be that later production cars really get 380 Nm.
The engine can deliver much more than 440 Nm. We think 500 Nm. We are going to try that out. A limited torque gives a different experience to the motor than an unlimited torque. With limited torque, the engine feels more like an atmospheric petrol engine. This is usually true for engines that have 2x the torque as power. Also in the case of the Giulia. 440 Nm and 222 HP. As a result, you will experience that the engine feels harder and harder as the revs increase.
The Giulia is also equipped with exhaust gas temperature control. If this regulation is not adjusted, the maximum tuned power will not be held for long. The limit is set quite conservatively by default. In practice, this would mean that in 4th gear the maximum tuned power decreases prematurely. In the 5th the maximum power is hardly reached. Not at all in 6th.
Another adjustment concerns the so-called SWIRL valves. These ensure that at low rpm / load one of the 2 inlet channels per cylinder can be completely or partially closed. However, these turned out not to be fully opened at full load. When the SWIRL is fully opened, the motor breathes 4% more air. Which directly results in just a little more air surplus, making the power delivered more pleasantly.
The 2.2 JTDm 16v is also a real Alfa engine in the tradition that we were used to from Alfa. The engine is a further development of the 1.9 JTD and 2.0 JTDm. The motor is no longer cast iron but aluminum. Due to a little more stroke, the cylinder capacity has grown to 2143 cc. Yes, a 2.1 actually. The turbo makes the engine. Have known that for a very long time. The turbo on the 2.2 JTDm is from Honeywell from the so-called VGT (Variable Geometry Type) family. Previously, the guide vanes were operated via an electronically controlled valve that sent vacuum to a diaphragm valve connected to the guide vanes. This has now all been replaced by an electronic stepper motor. Much faster and more precise.
The ZF transmissions are used throughout the automotive industry. In recent years, the 8-speed automatic transmission in particular has been used in many brands and models. With torque ranging from 300 to 1000 Nm. The Giulia is equipped with the so-called 8HP50. An 8-speed automatic transmission designed to endure 500 Nm. We see it as bullit proof. Shifts very nicely and in the Giulia exactly as we would wish as an Alfa driver. It makes the Giulia a car that many people have been waiting for.
Because the auto gearbox is much stronger than the manual, we as a tuner can also do our thing. With the manual gearbox, we had to hold back in terms of torque and even power. This is not very necessary with the auto. There is of course always an advice not to go much further than 500 Nm. As a tuner we don't go and that is why we go a little bit past the 500 Nm, 520 Nm to be precise. A very nice value. With the VM 3.0 V6 diesel from the Maserati Ghibli we also came to 730 Nm, which equates to 243 Nm / liter. The 2.2 Giulia now gives 236 Nm / liter. It's not about a peak in torque. The 520 Nm is delivered between 2300 and 2900 rpm.
In terms of power, we already predicted that there was more in it than the 222 HP of the manual gearbox. That ability came out completely without stress (we recognize the limit when we approach it). We “score” a whopping 242 HP with the automatic transmission. A gain of 62 HP. Such a big profit has actually never happened before, with already non-downtuned cars. We therefore come to the following conclusion. The 180 hp is also a downtuning of the (at the time of writing) the upcoming 210 HP Veloce version.
We measure the promised standard performance exactly on our power bank. 450 Nm and 180 HP. 70 Nm and 62 HP gain transforms this Giulia into a seriously fast car. We do not find 0 to 100 km / h very interesting. This is because there are still too many factors at play. Often the 1st and 2nd gear are somewhat limited, for example. Torque and power can be lost due to wheel spin and shifting takes time. We are more of the serious intermediate sprints. So not from 80 to 120, but from 100 to 200 km / h, for example. Ok, heavily illegal speeds on Dutch soil, but everyone is sometimes naughty, or stupid, just how you look at it. By default, the Giulia takes about 27 seconds to complete this sprint. After tuning this is 8.5 seconds faster. The sprint is then completed in 18.5 sec. That is a huge difference. We don't know exactly what it does to the top speed. It is certain that this will be higher and that the standard top speed of 230 will be reached much faster is also clear.
The 210 HP is then equipped with a different turbo (different part number), but that can hardly mean a different geometry (or performance level) of the turbo, and water/air intercooler. The 210 HP Veloce version has also been given slightly more standard torque. Namely 470 Nm instead of 450 Nm. The 210 hp is equipped with the same turbo as lesser versions but has an extra speed sensor on the turbo. This is the first time and meant extra research / development for us. The speed of the turbo is limited by software to prevent damage from overload. As soon as the speed gets too high (more than 200,000 rpm), the turbo pressure is slightly reduced. An excellent way to protect the turbo from overspeeding. We are not bothered by this with the tuning. That is, we do not have to stretch the limit set by the factory.
One could assume that a 210 HP could be further tuned in terms of power than, for example, a 180 HP version. We get this up to a good 240 HP. Unfortunately nothing turns out to be further from the truth. A Veloce does not want to give more than 240 HP without exceeding certain limits. The reason? The exhaust gas temperature! The longer a diesel engine is loaded at full throttle, where the speed is in the higher regions, the more the exhaust gas temperature will rise. The software-based exhaust gas temperature limit determines the final output. We have set the exhaust gas temperature limit based on our experience and expertise. A higher limit can lead to turbo damage.
If the engine is forced to deliver more power, this will only be possible in lower gears. The 1st to 5th gear in particular will be able to deliver a higher power for a short time. From 6th gear, the power will be regulated back under load of the set exhaust gas temperature limit. But it is precisely from 6th gear that the power starts to count, because the speed is so high that power is really desired. The 240 HP is achieved, higher power is not. What is possible is more torque. We have gone a little further than the 520 Nm of the less potent versions. With the Veloce we go for 540 Nm.
The Giulia 180 hp diesel can be ordered as a so-called Advanced Efficientcy version with extra low CO2 emissions. The engine is therefore equipped with the low pressure EGR system. The normal 180 hp version the 136, 150 and 210 hp versions do not have a low pressure EGR system. The AE is also equipped with the water/air intercooler, just like the 210 hp. The car is on ECO rubber 16 inch rims and the gearbox ratio would be longer. We have not (yet) been able to find any evidence of the latter fact in the technical (workshop) documentation. There are also differences in software, but not in terms of performance. In terms of tuning, the AE version can therefore be equated with the 180 hp automatic.
2.2 JTDm 16v EU-6D Giulia/StelvioAs of the production date September 2018, the manufacturer is expected to meet the Euro 6D standard. The big difference is that the emissions are measured according to a different driving cycle. Previously this was called the NEDC (New European Driving Cylce) test. Now it is called WLTP (Worldwide Harmonized Light vehicle Test Procedure). The test takes longer, the average speed and power demand is higher. And the rules surrounding the test are stricter. There is also a driving test on the road. However, the limit value for emissions remains the same. As a result, manufacturers had to work hard again to meet the emission requirements.
For the Giulia diesels this means the introduction of AdBlue and an extra SCRF filter. In total, the exhaust of a diesel now features a Diesel Oxidation Catalyst (DOC), a Selective Catalytic Convertor Filter (SCRF), and a Selective Catalytic Convertor (SCR) combined with a Diesel Partical Filter (DPF) and a Clean Up Catalyst (CC). Do you still have it? Here's more to come. To ensure that all this runs smoothly, 1 lambda probe, 4 temperature sensors, an exhaust gas pressure sensor, a particle sensor and a NOx sensor have been mounted.
What does this mean for us with 160/190/210 HP versions? Not very much actually. The Giulia JTDm is still running like a rocket and the performances we achieved before we still achieve. In short 520 Nm and 242 HP.
Further diesel development ('2004)According to Paolo Massai, head of product development at Alfa Romeo, the race for the power of diesel engines has already stopped at the begging of 2000-th to give way to the race to have low pollutant emissions. In fact, there is already a 1.9 JTD engine capable of 240 HP but which absolutely does not comply with the anti-pollution standards and, with current technology, making diesel engines capable of meeting the Euro 5 standards in force since 2008 will become very expensive and complicated. Massai therefore sees a resumption of the development of gasoline engines especially those with direct injection perhaps coupled to a turbocharger with significantly lower consumption than a modern engine.
почему почти? потому что ты себя все еще подогреваешь теми эмоциями и аурой, которые тебе дарила альфа, но ты уже попробовал других и вроде они и лучше объективно, но нет в них того самого, необъяснимого... 
